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Post by Admin on Oct 15, 2014 15:14:31 GMT
This is the thread to discuss general invasion strategy and planning, etc.
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 15, 2014 18:14:01 GMT
Hello to everyone being part of the Turkmen !!
I just wanted to say that before starting to go invade Minerva, we'd better find a reason for us to attack and to gather up together.
I mean something like a big council in the desert (to plan general actions or so) before attacking Minerva.
Maybe the discovery of a new artifact in the South has given us the strength to attack minerva or a religious fest has given us the will to beat Minerva's ass ?
I don't know yet, and I think it'll be good to choose.
Don't forget Turkmen are small nomadic tribes and families living in the desert and the mountains. They don't have much reasons to make a kind of council or join together for fighting. Little raids were their way to get what they want. Simple, but not really good disposition for war, isn't it ?
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Lirik
Faction 4
Posts: 108 
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Post by Lirik on Oct 16, 2014 7:10:44 GMT
Firstly, some ideas about faction.
Population. I offer a structure of 4 senior tribes with 10-12 junior tribes each as liegemen. Population of big tribe is about 1000 people and about 200 in small one. Total population of faction is about 12000. As soon as “They have been known to come together into larger groups for occasional raids or battles” there should be a central institution at least to coordinate time and place of attack. It might be a council of heads of senior tribes.
Any group of tribes can be divided into 4 parts: shelter keepers, merchants, stalkers (look for prewar technologies) and warriors.
As I know for Bedouin tribes, they don’t just ramble around a desert, they travel from one oasis to another. So, in my opinion there should be several shelters where a group of stalkers can take a rest. Old people, women and small children are keepers of such shelters.
All men older than 10 can act as soldiers. At least they know which part of sword to hold and which part is to poke into an enemy. Women do not fight at all, firstly because of remains of Islamic traditions, secondly because maternity institution became sacred in post war Turkmen society.
Military Resources. I think that there might be about 2000 warriors (17% of the population). It is large proportion for modern world, but maybe appropriate for post nuclear war times. About 200 will stay at home. So 1800 are ready to attack. They use mostly prewar fire arm weapons. No artillery, no vehicles, just a few heavy weapons (modern enough to just put missile inside, push button and shoot).
Admin, what about genetically modified animals? If the lab from pre planning was approved, why not to experiment on animals? I’m not asking for Shai-Hulud, but maybe some battle hamsters? Or biological weapons? I mean viruses, biohazard materials etc.
As for reasons:
1) Powerful weapon. Sounds cheating. Moreover, countries with powerful weapons usually do not use it they just threaten to use it.
2) External threat. Something is comming from the desert forcing Turkmen to run away.
3) Charismatic leader. Do not go with scenario.
4) As for religious fest... It definitely should not have connection with Islam and Christianity. Maybe new religions somehow connected with constant changing and adaptation to environment? "The fittest will survive" and so on.
Lets think about other reasons.
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 16, 2014 7:11:01 GMT
I got a new idea for our faction. How about this : "All started when I went to the South Desert. It was not the first time I went into it, but the first time I went so deep in it. I stayed 40 days in the Desert. While I was in one of the ancient city, I found something very interesting. It was a very strange artifact. It has shown me things [perhaps not, I don't know if some computer or television can last a hundred years... It could be a weapon otherwise]. It has shown me the path. The path to a better life for my clan. I couldn't resist-I bring it with me. First, my father wanted to trade it. But I showed him what I saw. Then, he said : "We must prepare." "For what ?", I asked. "For war", he answered." -Fed'nar Hual-Razha, in 'Notes for the Path' So basically what I came up with is that a Turkmen found an artifact that shown him other lands/other planet (maybe a tv, maybe a comp, maybe a terminal for a sattelite, I don't know what's the most plausible) and it's like a prophetic vision for him. He brings it to his clan and his father sees in it a sign of God. So, he convince other clans and tribes chiefs to meet and to plan a war against Minerva, because Minerva tech would allow Turkmen to fully understand what shows the artifact. And the son, Fed'nar, could become the leader of the army, some kind of Prophet, some kind of Mahdi. He could be the general of the army with his father and some other chiefs being his advisors. I don't know if it's plausible or not, if it's okay for you or ot, so let me know  |
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 16, 2014 7:15:10 GMT
Population. I offer a structure of 4 senior tribes with 10-12 junior tribes each as liegemen. Population of big tribe is about 1000 people and about 200 in small one. Total population of faction is about 12000. As soon as “They have been known to come together into larger groups for occasional raids or battles” there should be a central institution at least to coordinate time and place of attack. It might be a council of heads of senior tribes. I'm okay with that number. The council of the chiefs of senior tribes is definitely a right choice. |
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 16, 2014 7:23:17 GMT
Any group of tribes can be divided into 4 parts: shelter keepers, merchants, stalkers (look for prewar technologies) and warriors. As I know for Bedouin tribes, they don’t just ramble around a desert, they travel from one oasis to another. So, in my opinion there should be several shelters where a group of stalkers can take a rest. Old people, women and small children are keepers of such shelters. All men older than 10 can act as soldiers. At least they know which part of sword to hold and which part is to poke into an enemy. Women do not fight at all, firstly because of remains of Islamic traditions, secondly because maternity institution became sacred in post war Turkmen society. Why making a difference between stalkers and warriors ? I'd think warriors are the ones who go in the ruins and search for items, because it is an hostile environment. And because either a soldier or a stalker doesn't stalk or fight all his days. They're nomadic so they don't really have to fight when their tribe is walking to another shelter. I think bedouin wars occur in oasis, not in the middle of the desert. It could be the same here. While the tribe is walking, some warrriors stays to protect it (maybe the quarter of them) while the others run to the ruins and the South Desert to get things to trade in the next shelter. At least that's how I see it. For kids, I say it's okay, their training start at ten, but maybe at twelve or fifteen they have some ritual to go through to become a "real soldier", or a grown-up. For the women, I say you're right. Plus, radiations makes the birth of a child a very difficult thing, usually killing the mother if she's a bit weak. But some women may be sterile. Could they fight too or will they just help raise other women's children ? |
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Lirik
Faction 4
Posts: 108
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Post by Lirik on Oct 16, 2014 7:32:58 GMT
I like the idea of an artifact, but I dont like the fact that they explain it as a voice of god. They are offsprings of very smart scientists. I dont think that they are stupid enough to consider computer as magical box. Maybe they found a map (computer with electronic map) to find something very important for the faction and a key to get this. But I have no idea what it can be.
And I strictly dont like the idea of making Turkment too religious. Come on, we have Sons of Mohammed nearby. I think about them as about people that had to make very hard decisions in the past and change themselves. Now they are not very popular, because their neighbours do not understand that Turkmen had no other choice.
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 16, 2014 7:37:43 GMT
Military Resources. I think that there might be about 2000 warriors (17% of the population). It is large proportion for modern world, but maybe appropriate for post nuclear war times. About 200 will stay at home. So 1800 are ready to attack. They use mostly prewar fire arm weapons. No artillery, no vehicles, just a few heavy weapons (modern enough to just put missile inside, push button and shoot). As for reasons: 1) Powerful weapon. Sounds cheating. Moreover, countries with powerful weapons usually do not use it they just threaten to use it. 2) External threat. Something is comming from the desert forcing Turkmen to run away. 3) Charismatic leader. Do not go with scenario. 4) As for religious fest... It definitely should not have connection with Islam and Christianity. Maybe new religions somehow connected with constant changing and adaptation to environment? "The fittest will survive" and so on. Lets think about other reasons. Military resources : The numbers seem good for me. For weapons, maybe sometimes they can find a loot of really good pre-war weapons, and why not - some powered exoskeleton ? Like in a military bunker ? And maybe some clans have vehicles hidden in shelters but they don't use them, they just have them, and we could use them in the war. Or maybe not, I just give some ideas ^^ For reasons : 1) Okay, I see what you mean, like nuclear weap-oops. Sounds like this example doesn't work here, tehehe. 2) Yes, okay, but what could come from the desert ? Some mutated animals ? Like giant fennecs ? (okay this last example wasn't serious xD) 3) What do you mean by "do not go with scenario" ? 4) Hum, I see, like how Zensunnis turned into Fremens. A basic religion who changed with the environment. Still as some same bases, but different after a century of wandering in the deserts. Other reasons ? The one I gave in my little text above. I'll think for other later. I must go. Ma people need me xD |
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 16, 2014 9:54:47 GMT
I like the idea of an artifact, but I dont like the fact that they explain it as a voice of god. They are offsprings of very smart scientists. I dont think that they are stupid enough to consider computer as magical box. Maybe they found a map (computer with electronic map) to find something very important for the faction and a key to get this. But I have no idea what it can be. And I strictly dont like the idea of making Turkment too religious. Come on, we have Sons of Mohammed nearby. I think about them as about people that had to make very hard decisions in the past and change themselves. Now they are not very popular, because their neighbours do not understand that Turkmen had no other choice. I don't really have an idea... Maybe some kind of medication against radiations ? Or medical materials to change their DNA even deeper. I don't really know... Yeah, I see. You're right. In a hundred years you can't become that dumb. I'd rather follow your idea. So, what's the place of religion in their life ? Only a ritual place ? A way to live in harsh conditions, like a manual ? |
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 16, 2014 9:57:53 GMT
I also have an idea for the discovery of the artifact and a possible link between Sons of Mohammed and Trukmen.
I'll need Dan opinion about it.
I wrote a little text about it, I'll post it once I finish translation.
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Lirik
Faction 4
Posts: 108
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Post by Lirik on Oct 16, 2014 10:57:20 GMT
Why making a difference between stalkers and warriors ?
I wanted to say that stalkers are people who go deep inside the desert. They are able to navigate here, maybe some of them know prewar languages (just to understand what is in the box they found), they have special protection (suits or medication) against radiation ( Admin, do they still need anything like that?).
Warriors are people who know how to use knifes and swords and equipped for war. They know how to organize ambushes, make different traps etc.
We may group them together, if you want. They really have something in common.
For kids, I say it's okay, their training start at ten, but maybe at twelve or fifteen they have some ritual to go through to become a "real soldier", or a grown-up.
During middle ages training of a warrior might start when he is 5-6 y.o. One I’ve seen a battle armor for a 8 y.o. boy in museum. I like your idea about a special ceremony before becoming grown up. Maybe a kind of challenge?
But some women may be sterile. Could they fight too or will they just help raise other women's children?
Maybe they protect others when all men are away? Or a special detachment for them?
For weapons, maybe sometimes they can find a loot of really good pre-war weapons, and why not - some powered exoskeleton?
Because the Collapse took place in the beginning of 21st century and there is no powerful exoskeleton nowadays. Unfortunatelly.
1) Okay, I see what you mean, like nuclear weap-oops. Sounds like this example doesn't work here, tehehe.
I mean if they have a transcontinental nuclear missile (for example) why not to just blow up Minerva’s HQ? And here we are – game over.
2) Yes, okay, but what could come from the desert ? Some mutated animals ? Like giant fennecs ? (okay this last example wasn't serious xD)
I don’t know, just brainstorming. Maybe just wind goes radioactive sand to the north? And in Russia we use an image of fat white polar fox’s coming as a metaphor for very big problems. I like you idea about fennecs.
3) What do you mean by "do not go with scenario"?
Government: No centralized government appears to exist. The Turkmen either form small family groups, or appear to live as solitary nomads.
Maybe some kind of medication against radiations ? Or medical materials to change their DNA even deeper.
Yes, something like that. Or a way to turn the whole world (or nearby territories) into a place, where only Turkmen can survive. But who made it? What for? Why to hide it not far away from Russia in the middle of nowhere as Dan said?
So, what's the place of religion in their life ?
Just like in the modern world – hope for weak ones.
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 16, 2014 11:42:28 GMT
We may group them together, if you want. They really have something in common.
Yeah, I prefer to group them, if it's not bothering you. I mean, I don't see Turkmen as killers who often fight. They're not Mongolians ! They fight sometime because they disagree about territory or shelter's belonging. But they're from the same culture. They don't hate each other, they live in peace. They only fight other factions and Minerva vassals. Those soldiers need challenge, and something to keep them in form. Going in the desert and look in the ruins seem to be a pretty good challenge, no ? Plus, learning the pre-war languages could be really useful as battle language for the soldiers, some language than nobody except them understand. And they need to be very good at orientation. I think soldiers/stalkers must be the smartest people of the Turkmen, and when they become old, they become the chief of tribes. It's some kind of military power, but not so, cuze those soldiers/stalkers are very wise. What do you think ? During middle ages training of a warrior might start when he is 5-6 y.o. One I’ve seen a battle armor for a 8 y.o. boy in museum.
Damn I did not know ! I'll go with your idea, then. Maybe a kind of challenge?
The challenge could be to go alone in a city. When there younger than twelve, they go with a group or a master. I think it's better they have a master. Or one master for four youngs ? Tell me what's better, but I think a group of five people might be better. The master is an old man, but old in the harsh conditions of Turkmen life might be thirty or forty ! So when they turn twelve, they must go alone in the Desert and find an artifact in a city and come back to their master. A lot of children get lost in the desert though. It's hard to get his way in the desert if you didn't listen to your master's advices. Maybe they protect others when all men are away? Or a special detachment for them?I love the idea of a special detachment, some kind of elite troops. Maybe a division common to all the tribes ? Working as a link between all of them ? They could be mid spies mid elite soldiers. I love it cuz it's similar to the Fish Speakers of Leto II  Because the Collapse took place in the beginning of 21st century and there is no powerful exoskeleton nowadays. Unfortunatelly.*cries*
Maybe just wind goes radioactive sand to the north?
Then, why the wind didn't come earlier ? It doesn't really make sense. If it's wind, it should have come earlier, like ten years after the Collapse, you see ? And in Russia we use an image of fat white polar fox’s coming as a metaphor for very big problems. I like you idea about fennecs.
Very funny metaphor ^^ I like it More seriously, those fennecs could be only hallucinations from the desert and some guys took it seriously. That's why "all" the Turkmen might be frightened. No centralized government appears to exist.Okay, I get it. We'll let the Mahdi for Fremen, ahah ^^ But a temporary alliance between some of the tribes should be good. And fit the scenario. Or a way to turn the whole world (or nearby territories) into a place, where only Turkmen can survive. But who made it? What for? Why to hide it not far away from Russia in the middle of nowhere as Dan said?
Hum, like what ? A biological weapon ? It could be cool. Who made it => one of the country, in prevention of WWIII, but they never could release it, not had the time. What for => contaminate other countries Why hide in the middle of nowhere => prevent on people getting it too easily. A military top-secret program, for exemple Just like in the modern world – hope for weak ones. Works for me ^-^ // So, not in the details, they're very intelligent and good at trades, but hideous or enough genetically chanegd to be different of classic humans. They live in tribes and all the soldier must go wandering in the desert because it makes them who they are. They're pacific, I mena not hostile to everybody but something has changed. Someone found an artifact in the desert or a threat came from the desert and now they need to go in Minerva's territory. Seems good enough for a start ahah ^^
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Post by Admin on Oct 16, 2014 13:16:39 GMT
Ok, trying to answer questions. BTW, if you put the @ in front of admin, I think it notifies me and summons me Regarding your direct questions: I am ok with some of the genetically modified animals (modified before the people) escaped the labs to the deserts, and that some may have been domesticated by the Turkmen. These would be things like genetically modified war dogs, that are just slightly bigger, smarter, stronger. No flying hamsters that shoot lasers  But if you want to propose a specific couple of animals that they use in their society or for battle, sure. I was imagining that the Turkmen have increased resistance to radioactivity. In their genes, they have more proteins that repair and prevent damage from radiation. They aren't immune, which should put limits on how long they go into the deserts. They should have a custom that you only go in 10 days (or something) before you need to come out, because if you don't there will be some lasting damage (unless they DO have special medicines/protective gear). Maybe part of what they want from Minerva is enough gear and medicine for them to CROSS the radioactive desert? Because they believe that they need to go to their homelands in the south or something/ are tired of living up north. They want more territory to wander or something. I'd say no on bioweapons/nuclear weapons. If they had those, Minerva would have made a concentrated effort in the past to hunt down and destroy them. Whereas right not they tolerate the Turkmen because they aren't that bad. They've been sending diplomats (and spies) to try to meet with them. Maybe one of their spies offends them deeply? Which leads to them wanting to fight the Turkmen? Or a mix of telling them that Minerva has the suits and medicine and cures, but won't give it to you unless X, which offends them? Any other specific questions? Let me know. |
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Lirik
Faction 4
Posts: 108
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Post by Lirik on Oct 16, 2014 14:36:28 GMT
Ok, trying to answer questions. BTW, if you put the @ in front of admin, I think it notifies me and summons me I did not know that spell, thanks. Admin, sorry, I did not get the last paragraph. If I understood correctly and Minerva's spy has offended Turkmen, in my oopinion it will not work. As you said before, the faction is not a state, but a collection of tribes. If spy offends one tribe, others firstly should get to know about it and then do not laught at them (Ha, look at that loosers). To move the whole faction a spy or a diplomat should make extremely offensive offer. Why Minerva send so dilettante agent? How much Turkmen know about other factions? They are traiders, so at least they should know place where to go for exchange. Who they are trading with? (all others, Sons of Muhammed and Temples only?). What are the relations between factions? Is there an opportunity to cooperate? PS What a pity  |
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Post by Admin on Oct 16, 2014 14:42:38 GMT
I was just making a suggestion/idea/brainstorming what could offend them. You don't have to do the spy thing. But yeah, my ideas was that they caught a spy. Or maybe when they caught the spy, the spy panicked and said that Minerva would come destroy them if they don't let him go. So now they feel that they have to declare war on Minerva before they come destroy them. Just an idea. The Turkmen probably trade with the Sons of Mohammed and Temples directly. The others are too far away. But we'll have to make sure that the leaders of those two factions still enjoy trading with you. They might decide they'd rather fight you in this game, so don't expect them to be allies |
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But if you want to propose a specific couple of animals that they use in their society or for battle, sure.
Feb 11, 2016 19:34:32 GMT
Feb 11, 2016 19:34:32 GMT
