Dazim
Faction 2
Posts: 67 
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Post by Dazim on Nov 12, 2014 2:30:43 GMT
We cant really make a map like that without already having a map of settlements/ rad zones that we as a faction know about. Unless the maps have changed since i last looked(and i cant check right now) i would not feel that there is enough information to do such a thing.
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2014 2:45:35 GMT
Well, if you want to make a thread to talk about it, I can help provide the information you need  It doesn't have to be exact either, even just a general idea (caravan about here going to about there) will help me to give you better prompts and results. |
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Post by dratsabasti on Nov 12, 2014 9:57:54 GMT
Dazim I see you are trying to be conservative with our forces this can be a good thing in a long drawn out campaign where both sides are mostly even and time is not a factor to victory. However we are facing a force (in Minerva) that is far superior in tech and numbers, that if so inclined could deal with us in a mater of months to 2 or 3 years at most (this time frame is clearly to expensive in terms of cost/benefit at this time). Minerva is currently on the back foot and are slightly weaker because of some setback they have experienced. This will not last long and Minerva will recover in the short term (I predict this will be within the next 3-4 months if not sooner). For these reasons I suggested sending 2 platoons of scouts into Minerva in groups of 2. To clarify these scouts will be on house-back, lightly armed, told to lie about origins and reason for "visiting" Minerva, to be always moving, avoid Minerva entanglements where possible and gather information on items already stated.
Moreover I suggest that when we do attack Minerva we do so as raids. This should look like a series of random attacks orientating from a fractured group of tribes (ie what the Khanate looked like before we smelled blood). To achieve this we need to hit where Minerva Forces are not (ie where they are the weakest) in smallish numbers (company size) and avoid direct and open conflict with Minerva (this would result in slaughter). The goals of the raids is to take as much of there tech (weapons, communication, manufacturing, medical, armer, ordinance) as we can carry to be reverse engineered and integrated into our infrastructure and army. This is to set up eventual dominance in the area (long term goal).
Therefore we need to finish with the independent tribes this week. To accomplish this in the most efficient way possible is to put into practice the raiding tack ticks and hit them before they can become to organised agents us. As per my force organisation each company has 20 scouts to be used for information gathering and counter scouting for several km around the company (should be enough to provide vital information). Each company moves to "hit and run" the enemy forces form many different directions, at times determined by there war chiefs, with a set time frame of 1 to 2 days. The companies should not fully engage the opposing force. If the independent tribes have not fallen or surrendered by this time hit them with everything we have from all sides. This should demonstrate that our forces are fast, mobile, flexible and ghosts on the battle field.
Once the tribes have been bought into our fold (or wiped out) and we have enough of Minerva's tech I believe we should leave the conflict zone and turtle. Whilst we are attacking Minerva the sappers should be building minefields, hidden gun batteries, opening passes for our forces to move though, closing others to funnel enemy forces to were we want them, build traps and fortify strong points. Again our forces should be ghosts on the battle field. We also keep the tribes on the move to lessen the chance of beaning found or attacked. Our forces again attack where the enemy are not. We do not hold any one point against the enemy force. Let enemy occupy our territory and harass there forces until they give up (cast/benefit to great) or we have reversed engineered enough of Minerva's tech to push them out. The tech we "procure" from Minerva should be spread though out our territory to prevent Minerva from denying us its benefits by ether recapturing or destroying it.
Furthermore we send several diplomats to Minerva to further the elution of fractured tribes. To achieve this the diplomats arrive in Minerva at separate times through out our campaign. The first must be from The Great Khanate to "try" and open a trade agreement and an alliance. This should be turned down due to our raids. We offer to "Quell" the "other tribes" in our territory, however we would require aid in terms of armament and neutral ground to "open negotiations". "Other" tribe diplomats to go to Minerva talk about "co-operating and stopping hostilities" agents Minerva (which brake down regularly).
War is a calculated risk vs benefit enterprise. The longer we do nothing against Minerva the grater the risk becomes and the smaller the benefits are. Therefore we need to acted against Minerva soon.
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Dazim
Faction 2
Posts: 67
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Post by Dazim on Nov 12, 2014 14:23:13 GMT
While that is an impressive amount of text i think you have some misconceptions about both our strength and how wars of this type operate. The most vital of which is that you seem to think that hit and run tactics arent used best as part of a war of attrition and that we are in enemy territory. an enemy that has the same strengths we do in the area of mobility and also know the terrain better then we currently do. Now a general rule of warfare of this type is that for a clear victory in unstructured warfare you need more than 2-3 times the amount of combatants as your enemy. Now you can improve this with tactics but unless we scout we can not do such a thing moreover scouting with reveal to us if the force that is gathering is made up of combatants and their support staff or the whole tribes themselves and both options leave interesting possibilitys. I would add that we should move our army forwerd with the scouts to increase the area we scout but still keep it far enough from any gathering of forces to allow us to compose a defence and counter attack after any attack on our main force(ill provide details of a defence when i get some more free time).
Now you also say that we should attack minerva immediantly, i disagree in fact in my opinion we could stand to wait a bit longer untill our caravans(both the dipolomacy and spy)Report as there is no threat to us from minerva and they have bigger problems to deal with. And as for turtleing up in minerva why? the land we dont need and can just give to tribes we think can cause problems and let that sort itself out while we sit unassailable with our new loot and slaves back in our origional land.
And as for the force organisation unfortunatly it goes against the last few thousand years of conventional warfare to split your forces in such ways when dealing with an army of this type. You split sappers and speical ops into groups of 2-3(i lean towords 3) sure but an army like this needs a clear command structure and you simply cant get that by splitting your army into bite sized chunks every few days. Not to mention what that will do to moral people like to be near others on their side during warfare it makes em feel safe ya know. and as for the larger sizes basing them on base 10 is standard pretty much everywhere.
As for diplomats im all for it but i would suggest doing so after the curent spys have gone through and after we deal with this mess that i would hope takes us a few more weeks as a force such as we are about to face could take us out of the game if we do not do this right.
Yes you are right war is a calculated affair and right now there is an almost zero chance of minerva attacking us, preparing defenses? yes attacking? no.
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Post by castiel on Nov 12, 2014 17:04:47 GMT
Ok, the way I see it, we've riled up the tribes now. Let's deal with that before we even LOOK at Minerva. We don't know what's happening there, or in our other neighbours' territories yet, and I think it's important we finish one task first and firm up our control nearer home. In the meantime (only one or two weeks, depending on how this week goes) our caravans/spies are making inroads in finding out what is going on.
If we are patient, we can avoid interfering in other peoples' fights, mop up the survivors AND make easier gains for ourselves. We don't want to show our hand too early in this campaign, as we don't have the means for a protracted fight. We mostly have light cavalry, so we do need to make the most of our manoeuvrability, yet not overstretch ourselves.
I suggest we concentrate on the tribes only until we get info back from our trading/scouting missions.
If we hit Minerva fast and early, we will leave ourselves open to retaliation from the tribes at home, Minerva AND being annexed by NRF or China. If we find out what those factions are doing, we might be able to take advantage of any moves they make! (Confusion to our enemies!)
I hope that made sense to you both. =)
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Post by dratsabasti on Nov 12, 2014 20:43:53 GMT
Ok I'll leave the tactics for handling the tribes to you. I under stand your reasoning for the tactics you are using for handling them.
I did not mean turtle in Minerva territory. Once we have the loot, return home and hide it through out our territory and turtle, in case Minerva try and get back there assets back.
Can you pleas clarify how many troops we do have (have been running on an assumption of between 2000 - 5000 not counting serfs and slaves)
As for the why I am suggesting the smaller forces is to minimise losses and increase flexibility if we meet Minerva forces wile raiding in there territory. Smaller, faster forces are harder to find and hunt down. I can see with Minerva's tech level that 500 of there soldiers can easily tack on 5000 of ours. I am going against years of military convention because of the difference in tech level.
Also a caravan in Minerva territory is not going to give a lot of info in terms of viable intel, the caravan to NRF and China are to find out what they are doing. We need more than this from Minerva. having 20 groups of scouts in Minerva territory spread out, constantly moving and being as stealthy as possible has what I believe is a low and acceptable chance of tipping our hand to Minerva. This may look like normal scouting and spying if only one or two groups are found. 60% discovered would be concerning for us.
Minerva is already suspect us (reason for this war game) why not show we are at least paying attention to them. A lack of activity can be just as alarming as to much.
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Post by dratsabasti on Nov 19, 2014 6:05:26 GMT
now we need to send the scouts to sneak over there border and start recon, and a further 10 scouts to watch the border patrols for patterns, gaps and weak points.
we are currently at a disadvantage, we have almost no intel on Minerva. to pull of any victory we need intel.
this week we should finish off the independent tribes
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Dazim
Faction 2
Posts: 67
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Post by Dazim on Nov 21, 2014 3:46:23 GMT
Ive been flat out all week but here is what i have to say.
If we want to finish off the tribes this week it would be costly if we were to take 2 weeks+ on the affair i think we can get more gain for less loss.
As for sneaking in i would suggest against it as any action like that would cause war but if we want to start the war this week i have a plan for that. all we need to do is get the sappers to plant some disposable morter tubes(bamboo ie not the prewar ones) in a hill somewhere facing a village/compound/ anything belonging to minerva and set some delay fuses up(with double redundancy ofc) 5-10 tubes set to fire in pairs and wait 4 or so minutes before the next fireing should do. very little will hit the target but it will draw the minervan forces to that spot where the sappers have set tripwires and other traps to set off fares/coloured smoke.
This will be the signal to two forces one that on another hill further away with some of our better artillery that will commence fireing on the first hill when they see the smoke/flare. And a mounted force hidden a few minutes away that will move to cut off their retreat/press the attack and make sure no one survives.
I dont think that is what we should do but it is a plan.
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Dazim
Faction 2
Posts: 67
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Post by Dazim on Nov 25, 2014 19:59:13 GMT
Im wondering if you two are still with us and if you are waht thoughts you have on the current state of affairs.
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Post by Admin on Nov 25, 2014 21:06:14 GMT
If not I'm with you and will plan with you  |
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Post by castiel on Nov 26, 2014 12:58:52 GMT
Sorry to have disappeared. I'm having some problems at the mo. I'm still reading what's going on, but my brain is fried! Thanks for handling the submission again, Dazim. You're a star!
What do we want from the Russians and Chinese?
I see the Chinese want the Tien Shan mountains, but won't bother us otherwise. Helpful to know. Do we want the land they've claimed, or are we ok to ignore them and grab the tech and other lands? Interesting that they say that we aren't the only group to approach them...wonder who else?
Do we want to make a similar offer to the Russians? Claim an area and stay away otherwise, or do we want to find out what they want first? Do they have anything that we want to trade for (to add strength to the cover)?
I think we're doing the right thing with the tribes, as they'll run low on supplies soon (hopes!). Do we want to treaty with them or would we rather fight and push them to decide (risk our fighters) or do we want to wait them out (takes longer)?
Sorry I can only throw ideas/questions out. I'm not really well enough to make decisions at the moment, and I'm afraid I won't be for a couple of weeks yet. I'll try to respond as best and often as I can.
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Post by dratsabasti on Dec 3, 2014 11:18:29 GMT
sorry for being away so long but I had to let the tribes resolve. also my last discussion point was lost after 1.5h of writing (3h being my longest discussion)
we need to take strategy and plan the rest of our moves (to win) before we move agents Minerva. (subject to change and flexibility bast on reactions)
I still call for getting scouts into Minerva and fighting a shadow, nothing open.
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Post by dratsabasti on Dec 4, 2014 20:03:54 GMT
Questions to consider
1)what's our long term goal?
2)what's our mid term goal?
3)what's our short term goal?
4)what will we consider victory for each?
5)enemy strengths?
6)enemy weakness'?
7)enemy disposition?
8)our strengths?
9)our weakness'?
10)our disposition?
11)how long will we tack per goal?
12)what is an acceptable attrition rate?
13)what is an unacceptable attrition rate?
14)what do we consider a loss?
pleas answer these
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Dazim
Faction 2
Posts: 67
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Post by Dazim on Dec 5, 2014 3:58:37 GMT
We cant fight in shadow with an army this large and still be effective.
As for those questions some were answered in earlier posts and the others arent needed untill we get scouting information.
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Post by castiel on Dec 9, 2014 8:41:51 GMT
Hey guys, sorry I was away. I had a 'wobbly' week. Bah!
Reading the threads, I guess this week we're looking at moving everyone into place at the villages on Minerva's border, awaiting more info and ready to sweep in. Seems like a good idea to me. We've bolstered our numbers and it's totally thematic to go for the Mongol hordes!
Dratsabasti, I see what you mean tactically about shadow fighting, but I'm not sure it's in keeping with the theme of the game. I know you're up on the roleplay aspects of this, from your list of questions! I think that us going for a thematic sweep will test Minerva's defences better too (again going back to the theme of the game). But that's just my opinion and reason. Wanna give us an argument against it, that's great! =) It'll help us plan, I'm sure!
Dazim, thanks for holding things together! That's been brilliant! =D You're a star!
Now we're looking towards hitting Minerva, I hope we can pull together and discuss things a bit more.
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It doesn't have to be exact either, even just a general idea (caravan about here going to about there) will help me to give you better prompts and results.
