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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 5, 2014 14:46:49 GMT
We have talked about using biological energy (ATP) instead of electrical energy to power devices. Or even using ATP to power molecular motors, creating electron gradients -> current. It would be complete biological technology, no ? Because genetic manipulations could allow to create organice cars and so on, no ? |
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rat
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Post by rat on Oct 5, 2014 14:55:55 GMT
Такой автомобиль уже создан. Это лошадь.
This vehicle is already established. This horse.
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 5, 2014 15:15:20 GMT
Ahah omg you're right xD
But I think you see what I mean : organic buildings, organic weapons, organic ships, and not animals that do what they want but tools that can be manipulated at a very high accuracy.
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rat
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Post by rat on Oct 5, 2014 15:37:04 GMT
"Eden" Harry Harrison. But in this thread is offtopic. It's time to create a theme "transport".  |
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Post by Admin on Oct 5, 2014 15:38:26 GMT
You'll notice I listed that under "science fiction" not "alternative history". Also, Rat, I've studied the biology behind this (maybe you have too?), and there is no reason that the molecules involved in photosynthesis could not be improved/engineered to have greater efficiency. In the meantime, while developing this, Minerva actually has very low power demands, and other alternative energy sources (and their own oil stockpiles) will be enough while developing better energy sources. |
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rat
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Post by rat on Oct 5, 2014 15:58:00 GMT
You'll notice I listed that under "science fiction" not "alternative history". Also, Rat, I've studied the biology behind this (maybe you have too?), and there is no reason that the molecules involved in photosynthesis could not be improved/engineered to have greater efficiency. In the meantime, while developing this, Minerva actually has very low power demands, and other alternative energy sources (and their own oil stockpiles) will be enough while developing better energy sources. В твоем описании мира есть расхождение с реальной историей начиная с ядерной войны в Ираке в 2003 году. Этот жанр называется "альтернативной историей". In your description of the world there is a discrepancy with real history since the nuclear war in Iraq in 2003. This genre is called "alternative history." Природа не смогла повысить эффективность фотосинтеза за миллиарды лет эволюции. Nature has not been able to improve the efficiency of photosynthesis over billions of years of evolution. Я родился и вырос в регионе, где ты расположил "Минерву". Среднегодовая температура около нуля по Цельсию. Что при средней температуре плюс тридцать градусов по Цельсию летом означает необходимость мощного отопления зимой. И мощное уличное освещение, поскольку световой день очень короток. Регион рискованного земледелия. Поэтому нужны системы долговременного хранения продуктов и пищевая промышленность. Нужно производство зимней одежды. Нужно производство строительных материалов. Это только для того, чтобы жить. Энергии нужно много. I was born and raised in the area where you placed the "Minerva". The average annual temperature is around zero Celsius. That the average temperatures above thirty degrees Celsius in the summer is a strong need for heating in winter. And powerful street lighting because daylight is very short. Region risky agriculture. Therefore, we need a system of long-term food storage and food processing. Production need winter clothes. It is necessary to the production of construction materials. It is only in order to live. Need a lot of energy. |
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Post by Admin on Oct 5, 2014 16:06:45 GMT
Oh you live around there? Cool! I'm doing both alternative history and science fiction Nature hasn't needed too, since photosynthesis is good enough for plants. Plus, plants want to do different things than make lots of energy. They grow in size and etc. The engineered proteins would be designed for just 1 thing: harnessing light. It's plausible. They are already developing photosynthesis models that create hydrogen fuel. I'm also supposing that global warming + nuclear winter are going to do weird things to the climate, but yes, you are right that they will need energy. But since there are only like 1000 people at first, the energy sources they do have will work, even if it means they use all their oil stockpiles. Just more reason for them to develop something new. |
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rat
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Post by rat on Oct 5, 2014 18:16:33 GMT
Я вырос в Восточном Казахстане. Мой дом в Западной Сибири, на юге. Работаю сейчас очень недалеко от звездочки ядерного удара по российским нефтяным полям на твоей карте. I grew up in East Kazakhstan. My home is in Western Siberia, in the south. Work is now very close to the star of a nuclear strike on Russia's oil fields on your map. Мы говорим не про эффективность использования энергии растением. Мы говорим про эффективность самого процесса фотосинтеза. We're not talking about the energy efficiency of the plant. We're talking about the effectiveness of the process of photosynthesis. Тысяча человек будет в первые несколько лет. Если не начать спасать население региона, "Минерва" и через сто лет будет иметь численность около тысячи. Нужно за несколько лет развернуть производство пищи, одежды, стройматериалов, медикаментов, наладить отопление и здравохранение. Не для тысячи, а для миллионов человек. Это мы исходим из предположения, что тотальной войны с применением ОМП не было. Thousand people will be in the first few years. If you do not start saving people in the region, "Minerva" and in a hundred years will have the number of a thousand. Need a few years to develop the production of food, clothing, building materials, medicines, develop heating and Public Health. Not thousands, to millions of people. This, we assume that the all-out war with the use of weapons of mass destruction was not. |
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Post by Admin on Oct 5, 2014 18:40:27 GMT
Yeah, you're making me think more about how the power can work and etc. Maybe there is a secret, shameful nuclear reactor deep in Minerva that most don't know about But the process of photosynthesis (using light energy to energize electrons and power proteins to form ATP and other molecules) isn't the exact same process I'm talking about. I'm talking about similar (but different) genetically engineered molecules that grab the energy of light and turn it into electricity. Like photovoltaic cells of today, but instead of using the metals and etc that they use, using organic, engineered molecules. So it's basically the same (just more efficient) as current best solar energy, just using organic molecules so that rare minerals aren't a limiting factor. Also, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about Kazakhstan (in the other, general setting thread), because all I know I found out online. I picked Kyrgyzstan and the Tien Shan mountains because they were relatively in the middle of nowhere and far from areas where major events in WW3 would likely happen. |
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rat
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Post by rat on Oct 5, 2014 19:17:08 GMT
Поговорю с генетиками из Новосибирска, что они думают про перспективы искусственного фотосинтеза.
Talk with geneticists from Novosibirsk, what they think about the prospects for artificial photosynthesis.
Мне не нравится название Третья Мировая Война для обсуждаемого Кризиса. Как насчет термина "Катаклизм"?
I do not like the name of the World War 3 for discussion Crisis. How about the name "Cataclysm"?
Казахстан большая страна. Даже тот кусок, что у тебя числится "под непосредственным управлением Минервы" вмещает пустыню, несколько высокогорных районов, равнину, лес.
Климат резко континентальный: очень жарко летом, очень холодно зимой. Частые и мощные бури.
Много полезных ископаемых, в том числе уран, свинец, цинк.
Kazakhstan big country. Even the one piece that you have listed "under the direct control of Minerva" accommodates the desert a few mountainous areas, plains, forest.
The climate is continental: very hot in summer, very cold in winter. Frequent and powerful storms.
Many minerals, including uranium, lead and zinc.
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Post by jasonc on Oct 6, 2014 0:39:42 GMT
That's assuming there wasn't a massive technology boom before nuclear war broke out.
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Lirik
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Post by Lirik on Oct 6, 2014 15:01:15 GMT
[off] Admin, to choose postapocalypse setting instead of magical one was correct decision, wasn't it? At least you don't have to think about how dragons can breath out fire  [/off] |
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rat
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Post by rat on Oct 7, 2014 14:41:24 GMT
Кыш, драконы тут бессильны! Shoo, dragons are powerless here! |
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Post by Adriano The Fabulous Fennec on Oct 7, 2014 15:07:02 GMT
Кыш, драконы тут бессильны! Shoo, dragons are powerless here! Unless we add them some organic solar panels lol |
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Post by theleakingpen on Oct 14, 2014 19:10:04 GMT
bio-oil algae are already a thing, and if you made combined vats of yeast and photosynthetic algae that makes sugar (or make photosynthetic yeast) then alcohol production (with a benefit of plastics materials when you clean out the old vats for a new batch) is pretty feasible. When it comes to retrofitting old technology, I'm a big fan of a series of minto wheels made out of old propane cylinders and natural gas or refrigerant. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minto_wheel |
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