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Post by deltav on Nov 29, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
Hello, thatevilwolf, and welcome, this is the interaction I've been hoping for. Can you see the private messages and replies between us and the other two factions we're dealing with? I can't get the Russians to use the multi-recipient posts so I gave up trying and just used Quick Reply instead. Let me know what you've read. I did some Google research, and our territory encompasses Armenia (agriculture, livestock, manufacturing petrochemical and other chemical industries--they produce synthetic rubber--and a little mining); Azerbaijan (oil and oil refining, mining and smelting, fishing); Georgia (some agriculture, transportation specialists for road and rail); the southern tip of Russia along the Caspian sea and west almost to the Black Sea (Fishing, agriculture, livestock); the eastern edge of Turkey (mostly rocks and dirt); and northern Iran (more oil, some mining). You have a good point bout the crossbows. I was planning to use them mostly to take out sentries, bandit and otherwise, to capture other faction's fighters to extract information, and to shoot explosives and incendiaries through firing ports and viewports. We wouldn't need all of them for that. Traditionally, civilian vessels are supposed to be unarmed because the difference between a fisherman and a pirate is usually opportunity. Also, most of the fishing fleet consists of smallish sailboats, with only a few larger diesel-powered ships remaining. However we could easily arm them if you want. We could also upgrade the medium machine guns on the revenue cutters to 12.7 mm heavies. A burst from one of those could sink anything short of a light cruiser. Our biggest edge is oil. We have it, they need it, we can defend it. Another edge they haven't figured on, is that since the Russians are getting cute about buying our oil, we have a surplus of oil drums. If we fill some of them with fuel oil, and some of them with ammonium nitrate, make a way to mix them remotely, and plant them in pairs in places such as, say, the walls of those "rest stops" we're building for the Turkmen, or perhaps the more tempting spots around those mini forts where an attacking force might take shelter during a battle, or even in the houses of villages between us and the Russians, why, any attacking forces might find such things.....discouraging. Both of our neighbors seem to be fighting amongst themselves over what they want from us and what they want in trade. I've got the Russians convinced that we're desperate for tractor parts and wood-gas fired machinery, and the Turkmen think we're seeking a superweapon from the radioactive wastelands of Iraq and Iran. I did want the horses, but we can make do without them. Four infantrymen can carry as much as a horse, and you don't have to be nice to them. I don't know if our GM is going to use it as a factor, but our faction is going to be the most affected by the altitude change. The Caspian Sea is actually BELOW "Sea Level", and the Tien Shans are pretty darn high. That's one reason I was planning to go kind of slow. The other is that I actually want the other factions to hit them first so the defenders are distracted, but not be so late as to miss the party. In the next round of trade negotiations, I plan to tell the Russians that if we can't get furs, we will have to use ALL the cotton crop to make quilted cold weather gear for our troops. Thoughts, questions, better ideas?
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Post by Admin on Nov 29, 2014 23:36:16 GMT
Deltav, he probably can't see the trade negotiations. You might want to make a thread in your board to discuss trade, where you can copy and past the threads. In fact, just to be helpful, I'll make that thread for you right now.
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Post by thatevilwolf on Nov 30, 2014 0:29:15 GMT
I wouldn't personally go as far as to arm our fishing boats with anything too heavy, taking too many resources away from our own standing force. A means to defend themselves at the very least in case of an opportunistic raid from a band of raiders at the least. Given how we're feeding 50,000 people, it might be wise to start thinking of a sustainable crop rotation that we both have readily available and that'll allow us to produce food through the hot+cold/Wet+dry seasons, knowing that we will last that long. Having an edge in oil over our two friends will be an advantage. And the ANFO explosives sounds like a plan in some of the more defensible buildings, but keeping it in places safe enough so they may not be detonated prematurely or will give away that we're not entirely trusting of our allies. We also don't want to manufacture it in too large amounts or risk the possibility of the whole plan taking too many resources that, in this dwindling apocalyptic world, we don't have. It's a semi-decent thing to hear that they're bickering over that. We can gain a few good allies within the factions if they're on two ends of an argument and we can find a compromise, or we side with one of them. Although the lack of horses thing may be a problem, because morale is big when it comes to wars, and winning them. If we have wild animals that we can use as beasts of burden then it might be a good use of resources to start working into ways to domesticate them, assuming they don't outright attack us. Telling the Russians that could be a double edge blade, we may get stocks of fur we need but it may reveal our plan to move North. I look forward to your reply to the matters, and as I was only placed into a team within the last 24 hours, I've yet to see any negotiations from before.
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Post by deltav on Dec 1, 2014 0:33:01 GMT
We have three 50 foot patrol boats that I was talking about putting heavy machine guns on. For the fishermen, just let them arm themslves with rifles and such.
According to the game set-up, the game started in "late Summer" so we'e probably in late September/early October in the game. We have until full mountain winter hits Minerva, when all our men will die. The cold weather gear is to keep us alive long enough to play the game. You are right on all your points, but we don't have long enough for them to matter.
ANFO is extremely stable until mixed, and then fairly hard to set off--it take a powerful blasting cap or starter charge. It's cheap to make, an we already use the components to fuel engines and fertilize crops. Besides, we're taking a bunch to Minerva to blow holes in walls.
The arguments aren't between factions, but between members of the same faction. A post with a trade offer may be repudiated by the next post from the same faction, but a different member--very frustrating.
Now I'm going to go see if an old man can learn to use cut and paste.
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Post by Admin on Dec 1, 2014 1:09:47 GMT
We're in early September by my count
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Post by thatevilwolf on Dec 1, 2014 1:12:44 GMT
In the case of the Patrol boats the heavy machine guns may be a smart move. Because it's really unknown how others will act to us. In the case of the fishermen that was my point from the beginning, apologies if I didn't explain it the way I meant it.
Very true on the matter, but the game is likely going to last till Minerva is breached and we have no idea how many months of siege that will take to even break the outer defences, especially if we're all attacking from different sides, yes, the physical force of Minerva will be spread but their Auto-defence will still prove challenging.
The ANFO seems like a reliable way to scare off competition in our land, and we will need it for blowing holes in the wall, and large amounts of it depending on thickness, and how many walls there are. We'll need to keep the RPGs and such for the automated turrets.
And in-faction arguments are what divides factions, as well as keeps them occupied, while they're bickering away we have an open window. Whether we chose to take it or not is another story, that's why it's better having smaller teams with a like-minded council.
And I will have to apologise if my replies are hours apart from yours, Time zone differences and all (+11 GMT here currently)
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Post by deltav on Dec 2, 2014 3:02:50 GMT
Minerva's biggest problem is that the vast bulk of their population are scientists and academics unfit for fighting--the kind that will urge for surrender or negotiation. The head of their defense, Sebastian Grey, is a current member of the US military, so we can expect to see overlapping field of fire, minefields in varying degrees of nastiness, drone surveillance, hardened automatic turrets, mortars, booby traps, pitfalls, and if he has a really nasty turn of mind caltrops and punji sticks. Poison gas and flamethrowers are also a strong possibility, which is why I'd like to let the other factions test his defenses first. The problem is, once the shell is breached, Minerva will quickly fall. A fortress is only as good as it's defenders. Since you are in time zone +11, you have a chance of being from an area that can get really cold, so you'd know how bad that can be for the unprepared. (if you aren't from a cold land, the answer is: Very, VERY, bad.) I see that the admin says we have about three weeks more than I thought, so that's good. If the game time (not our time) runs into spring, and we're still in the game, you can tell the farmers to follow any plan you like--I'll leave that up to you. We have armed thugs to ah, convince them to obey you.
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Post by thatevilwolf on Dec 2, 2014 5:29:35 GMT
That is very true, do we have the ability and/or means of research into Flak armours and/or something heavier, anything we can work from in the old world that we can use to arm our troops to have a slight defensive bonus against our enemies to one point or another. If we are to advance on Minerva effectively with little casualties before and during all hell breaking loose, we're going to need to be more than just armed to the teeth offensively. The biggest problem with a fortress, is at times, 1 wall isn't the limit.
Australia, although excruciatingly hot, can get rather cold, but not below freezing point where I currently am, although I have lived in an area where it was a yearly occurrence and I do grow some of my own fruits and vegetables. Looking into Azerbaijan's Agriculture and as we're on the stretch of September, our farmers would likely be harvesting our Warm crops and working towards replanting some crops that will thrive in the cold weathers. Although the Siege is a large part of the plan here, we also need to think about how our civilians will survive the coming Winter, every army is driven by multiple things, and if our force knows that their family and friends that cannot fight are in good hands it will lead to higher spirits which can turn a battle.
Also reading from the official weekly post we're building a Forwards base, it is definitely a good move, although one can only hope we can maintain some semi balance of stealth. I'm assuming that the first few things on the building list for the outpost will be a Barracks/Troop hut. I would also suggest a temple, as I've done a bit of research into it and it may be a decently viable idea to have a house of worship.
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Post by deltav on Dec 3, 2014 1:34:26 GMT
In case you haven't seen it already, I've reposted all the negotiations between us and the others on the new Trade/Diplomacy Discussion thread, and I'll keep reposting as new messages come in.
I don't know if you've been reading The Demon Archives comic that this game is (Very loosely) based on, but at one point it was mentioned that Minerva has satellite surveillance ability. They also have drones and air power (helicopters, possibly fixed-wing craft as well), so there's no way we can avoid detection. We can, however, practice deception, presenting ourselves as a rag-tag collection of indifferently armed opportunists who threw together a poorly-thought-out attack plan, more of an irritation than a threat. That's one reason I split the army into a main body with two follow-on forces.
The location of the forward base has yet to be determined, but it will absolutely have a Mosque--we're fanatics, after all--also barracks, infirmary, and mess hall. At this point, we don't know the exact location of Minerva, so everything is contingent on that information.
You're right about the crops, but don't forget about that chunk of southern Russia by the north end of the Caspian Sea. It's all farmland and ranches. We own a bit past the mouth of the Volga river, but not much past. I think (check me on this) that Azerbaijan lies about as far north as Victoria lies south, so the climates should be close--except for rainfall. And I think the Russian part produces mainly grain crops and potatoes.
The area we're headed for can get as cold as -40C depending on altitude.
I figure our technology to be somewhere around Korean War level except for the lack of air power and a few other holes like that. On the other hand, our Hashashim are bio-engineered, so we may be able to have a couple of other positive quirks too.
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Post by thatevilwolf on Dec 3, 2014 5:24:36 GMT
I've been reading it, and by the looks of things, our Russian allies are ones we can trust more so than others. I keep an eye on it, but leave it to just the posting of messages concerning Trade relations as discussion is kept here.
I have been keeping up to date with the Daemon Archives, and know that their technology overpowers and out guns ours 10 to 1 at the least. But if we can keep to looking like an armed group of religious fanatics that only wish to spread the word of our prophets, then that's probably as best we can get to Subtlety then that is what would be wise to use to our advantage.
I apologise as I was going by what I could work with as definite land on our borders. Potatoes and grains will prove useful in rationing out to troops and that farmland can supply the forward outpost a lot quicker than some of our other farmland to the South.
At least at that level we have a decent tech level. The Hashashim though. A quick run down of their role on the field and the perks of their bioengineering.
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Post by deltav on Dec 3, 2014 20:35:34 GMT
The Hashsashin were specified for us by the overall game planning. this is what it says in the official description:
"Have a select band of soldiers, called the Hashshashin Guard, directly under the control of the Caliph. These soldiers have undergone medical and genetic enhancements that make them superior soldiers, but at the cost of their long term health and lifespan. They accept this for the glory of jihad and promised blessings after their deaths. The fight with great ferocity, cutting a path through enemy lines that the regular soldiers are then able to exploit."
The human body can only be pushed so far, and the cost to muscles and heart is horrendous. I figured that such warriors would be deteriorating by age 35 and be dead by 40. No super powers like x-ray vision, ability to fly, or anything like that, but rather faster reflexes, muscle strength and speed at the very upper limit of what adrenaline-fueled muscles can do, stamina, quicker healing, that sort of thing.
Militarily, they are usually held back until defensive walls are breached or close-quarter battle is joined, whereupon they rush in and sweep away the defenders. They are very hard to stop, and there are many accounts of a fatally-wounded Hashsashin continuing to fight, often killing the man that gave him the fatal wound.
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Post by deltav on Dec 3, 2014 20:45:40 GMT
Don't forget that we have fishing fleets in both the Caspian Sea and the Mediterranean, and are in no danger of overfishing in either place. Fish are easy to dry and/or smoke, and keeps well.
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Post by thatevilwolf on Dec 4, 2014 1:54:13 GMT
So they will have little use against Minerva till we can get them inside the walls, and even then it may be hard to have use for them with so many civilians inside the walls. Fancy tricks only work so long and super powers like that can be sometimes used over the limits. Although they are advantageous if someone tries turn on us considering they're not as heavily armed a threat as Minerva.
That is also a good point. Fish are considerably easy to come by when your territory borders 2 seas.
All in all I say for now we keep with the plan to build the forward outpost, that'll take between a month or two to get in proper working conditions with small generators and whatnot to power lighting and heating in that area, yes?
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Post by deltav on Dec 4, 2014 22:33:13 GMT
I hate to break this to you, but the Hashsashin Guard don't draw any distinction between military people and civilians. They won't be dragging people out of their houses, but anyone caught in the street is dead. Their purpose is to degrade defenses, and that includes defender morale.
Minerva was never designed to repel an attack like the five faction are mounting. A properly designed fortress has multiple, concentric defensive walls with open kill zones in front of them and chokepoints. Minerva is a city with a wall around it. The various Institutes, municipal buildings and temple compounds have some protection, but they aren't really designed for it.
You underestimate just how fast an army can put a forward base together. Fast and ugly, is a pretty good description. Even a single canvas tent wall will protect the inhabitants if they have a good source of heat. I once slept in a tent when the outside temperature approached -27 C, and was warm enough to sleep comfortably.
The Turkmen have supposedly left for Minerva, but their continued lack of response bothers me. The Russians bother me more, because they don't seem to want to send a force--and they have tanks. I think we'd better dig camouflaged tank traps and ANFO booby traps on our northern border
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Post by thatevilwolf on Dec 5, 2014 0:23:21 GMT
Point; Taken, on the first 3 points that is. Besides I guess a lot of the civilians will flee further inwards into Minerva reducing their casualties. That's what I was expecting from Minerva's structure but I guess we'll have to wing it when inside the base. And with enough hands any kind of outpost can be built in a week or two, if not days. But fortifying it will be a considerable stretch and if we do not we risk the chance of attack on a rather undefended outpost.
I would be cautious about the Turkish, because if they do have this SKUD missile, and if I've done my research properly, it's just as bad for us as a nuke, and excruciatingly painful to biological life. It might be wise to invest in those defences. From what you tell me, things don't add up with them.
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